Listen to this episode of Soul Talks:
Do you resonate with the Peacemaker type or know someone who does? Join Bill and Kristi as they have an engaging dialogue with their daughter, Briana, on how the Enneagram has helped her to grow in her self awareness and in her intimacy with Jesus.
For more Soul Shepherding resources on the Enneagram, click below:
YouTube videos
“Finding Your Enneagram Type”
Blog Posts
SoulTalks
Expressing Your True Self (Peacemaker)
Bill and Kristi Gaultiere with Guest Briana Gaultiere
Kristi
God has given you a wonderful personality, but it’s been damaged by sin, stress, and pain.
Bill
We all have unhealthy and unloving coping mechanisms built into our personality that we need to overcome.
Kristi
Let’s talk about how Jesus wants to help you repair your personality and grow in God’s grace.
Bill
We’ll draw on the ancient wisdom of the Enneagram, filtered by a Biblical understanding.
Hey friends, we have a special treat for you on Soul Talks today.
Kristi and I are talking with our daughter, Briana, about the Enneagram and how it has helped her as a Peacemaker, number Nine on the Enneagram.
And we know we’ve got a lot of you Peacemakers out there in the Soul Shepherding community. because we talk to you all the time.
Welcome.
We love having you part of Soul Shepherding.
Kristi
We’re inviting you to join us around our kitchen table today.
Bill and Briana and I have had many great soul talks about the Enneagram.
So we’re grateful to have you joining us — and Briana we’re so grateful for you to take courage to join us on Soul Talks today.
Briana
Yeah, thanks for having me. I’m glad to be here.
Kristi
Good.
Well, Briana, tell our listeners a little bit about you because they don’t necessarily know much about you.
Briana
Yeah. I’m Briana. I’m Bill and Kristi’s youngest daughter. I’m 23. I graduated from Westmont college about a year and a half ago now.
So I work at a Christian counseling center. I’m the office administrator there and that’s been fun to kind of continue in my parents’ world of therapy and get to participate in that with other people.
I also serve in the youth group at my church as a leader there. That’s been a really fun ministry for me to get to be a part of as well.
Kristi
Well, Briana when dad and I first started talking about the Enneagram about 10 years ago, you were the first to just be hearing us in bits and pieces talking about it, reading about it, having conversations, and overhearing those.
Then at some point you decided, well I’m interested in this. Tell us more.
Briana
Well, I like to be included in things and I often find I feel uncomfortable or sad when I’m left out of things.
So as my parents were talking about the Enneagram years ago, early on, I felt like it was beyond my ability to understand.
I was frustrated with that and I wanted to be able to participate in conversations at dinner with the family.
Being the youngest in the family, that’s usually how it goes. I’m trying to draw everybody out and find a way to join the conversation.
So that was what kind of peaked my start with the Enneagram was from you guys.
I did what you’re not supposed to do and I asked you, “What am I?”
And you guys told me, well, we think you’re a Nine and I was, well, “What’s a Nine?”
Vulnerability in Learning Your Enneagram Number
Briana
As I heard about that, I thought, I hate this. I don’t want to be this type. This is the worst of all the types.
I just felt totally exposed and it was all the things that I didn’t want to believe were true about me.
I think because of that, I didn’t really know what to do with the Enneagram, and it felt so complicated.
It felt like there was a lot to learn. So I just kind of slowly started to learn it through conversations with you guys, and you guys made it a lot easier for me to understand.
Then as I’ve gotten older and journeyed with it more, I’ve done more reading on it and had more conversations with friends and other people.
That’s really helped me kind of understand it better. It’s actually made a really big difference for me in my own personal development and self-awareness.
Kristi
You really articulate it well, Briana, the way I think we all feel when we start into the Enneagram — exposed, we don’t like it, and horrified to think, “Oh no, is this true about me? I don’t want it to be.”
We can be utterly overwhelmed to try to think about understanding it.
Bill, you and I have been working with an Enneagram now for over a decade and we’re still learning.
Bill
Yeah. It’s very rich and deep.
Actually, I love the Enneagram. There’s just so much potential for more understanding about yourself, your loved ones, your relationships, how you relate, how you pray, and how you work.
So it is something that can help you with a little bit of knowledge and then it can help you more and more, the more you learn.
So yeah, you listening in, you’re getting an idea of what it is like in the Gaultiere home, around the dinner table. What’s it like for the kids having parents who are both therapists?
Well, we talk about personality sometimes.
Briana
Always talking about the Enneagram or emotions or something related to that.
Kristi
Yeah, but Briana, you didn’t just like roll your eyes and disconnect. How come?
Briana
Well, I want to participate and be a part of the family and engage in things that everyone else is engaging in.
It’s sad to be the only one excluded from a conversation. I want to understand. So as part of that, you have to ask questions and participate a little bit more than sometimes you want to.
Kristi
Yeah, but this has become more than just being a part of family conversations for you.
Briana
Yes. Well, it started as that, but I’ve discovered the wealth and beauty in the Enneagram and what a gift that is to kind of hold and kind of walk with that.
It’s been really helpful for me in my relationship with God and my relationship with myself and my relationship with others.
So I think once you get into it, you see that there’s so much goodness and richness there and it really does make a difference.
Enneagram Nines and Relationships
Kristi
Would you be willing to share a little bit more about how it’s been helpful to you in relationship with God and others?
Briana
Yeah. Probably with my relationship to myself, it’s just helped me understand why I am the way I am and helped me understand where some of my feelings about life and people come from.
Because I think before I was more prone to just not be aware.
So that’s made a big difference for me just to understand my patterns of thought and my patterns of feeling and behavior, why I do the things I do, and what kinds of things can free me from that.
Bill
Yeah. So talk with us more Briana about self-awareness because that’s huge for you as a Peacemaker type and really for all the Nine types, right?
The Enneagram is all about helping us be more aware of ourselves and other people and God.
Briana
Yeah. Well I’ve learned that I tend to forget myself.
It actually showed me that I have a self because Nines tend to do that. We tend to think we don’t matter and we’re not important.
We don’t pay attention to ourselves. We can think and feel from everyone else’s perspective except for our own.
That’s probably been the most significant piece of that. It’s helped me recognize and see that I do have opinions and thoughts and feelings about things and it’s important and okay for me to voice that to myself and to others.
That’s probably been a significant one with that. In smaller areas too, just to kind of recognize and come to terms with the fact that maybe I do have some anger, which Nines tend to not feel that way and not think that they have any anger.
Or just to see my patterns of stress or growth and kind of understand and recognize people that might draw that out in me in healthy ways or unhealthy ways or situations that might contribute to that.
So I just think it’s given me greater awareness to feel like I have a friend on the journey with me, and I can know what to expect and be prepared and I have a tool to help me with it.
Bill
One of the things you’re illustrating is that as a Peacemaker Nine, you will tend to merge with other people and really tune into them what they feel, what they want, their personalities and sort of reflect that back and join with that.
On the one side, that’s like just this great gift of love that you bring to people, whether it’s your friends or people you’re working with, or our family.
And yet on the other side, what you’re saying is that you can lose yourself and you lose touch with, “Well, what do I feel? What do I need?”
Briana
Yeah. And a big part of that comes from Nines having a fear of losing connection with others.
So they negate themselves and they negate anything that could potentially stir up conflict because they want to be connected to other people.
Then the loss in that is that they’re not connected with themselves, and so then it’s hard for other people to find them.
So that’s been a big kind of piece of my life and something that I’ve worked to try to be better at, but it’s hard.
Enneagram Nines and Growth
Kristi
Briana, how has having a map that the Enneagram gives you, showing you where Nines go in growth and in health, how has that helped you?
Briana
It’s made a big difference for me.
Well, probably we should start that Nines grow and integrate at the Three, which would be the Achiever Performer.
Threes are great leaders and they’re really good at letting themselves be showcased to other people with their gifts and their talents. They’re very encouraging, also relational.
So as a Nine to move towards that and integrate some of that strength in my life, it means actually showing up and engaging with the world around me and letting people see who I am and my opinions and my gifts.
Not just taking the back seat, backstage, but letting myself actually participate with other people.
So even just knowing that’s healthy for me has given me more confidence to step up in those moments and to have security and confidence in my thoughts.
To know that it is going to be okay for me to show up and participate in things fully, rather than just kind of letting other people shine. Not in a prideful way, but in a way that’s contributing what God’s given me.
Bill
I think you’re talking about taking courage.
Briana
Yeah.
Bill
That’s a great word for you..
Kristi
We’ve seen you do that and it’s a great delight to us to see you doing that.
Briana
Can you think of an example?
Bill
What jumps out at me is in college when you were sort of coming into your personality and your self-awareness and your ability to articulate, somewhere in there a light went on for you.
You just went to a whole deeper level, certainly in your conversations with me, and in the questions that you were asking, and the ways that you were reflecting about yourself and bringing that into your relationship with God and your friendships.
I saw you learn that, “Okay. Sometimes I think I’m overwhelmed with my classes, all this work, being a resident advisor on campus and my social life, trying to balance all these things.”
So you would feel like, “I just need to rest. There’s just too much to do. I’m overwhelmed.”
What you found was you get energy from taking courage and just getting out there and doing something, being with a friend, studying with a friend, doing your homework in a group.
I saw you learn that you could get over that tendency to sort of retreat and withdraw and rest, with a lethargy and a difficulty with self-activation.
That learning was really huge for you.
Briana
Yeah, definitely.
I think obviously that kind of thing is different for each person, but I know for me specifically, learning that people do activate me and engaging with other activities and other people is a way for me to bring myself to the world and to gain more energy.
I could actually find some rest and kind of soul rest from that, rather than just withdrawing and I don’t know, slipping away into patterns that don’t really lead to anything.
Bill
As a Nine you’re a relational type.
Briana
Yeah.
Bill
The Threes that you mentioned, the Achievers/Performers, are relational types.
The Sixes are Loyalists and very traditional. They’re relational types.
Kristi as a Two, a Helper Caregiver — we’ve talked about this in last week’s podcast — you’re a relational type.
Fours, the Individualists and Romantics, are relational types.
Others can be too, but especially those. You get energy from being with people. So working in groups and in teams is a great dynamic for you.
Kristi
Yet, you can also get drained by being with people if you’re in your unhealth and you’re hiding and devaluing yourself.
If you are not showing up and you’re asleep to yourself, then it can be draining to be with people, if you’re all about just caring for them and merging with them.
Encouraging Enneagram Nines
Briana
Yeah. It’s a lot harder for me when I’m the one who has to advocate for other people constantly, and they’re not advocating for me because Nines tend to go unnoticed and to be underappreciated.
So it’s really important and really helpful in relationship with Nines to recognize them, to draw them out, and to not require them to constantly be merging with you.
To also pay attention to them and their worldview, because oftentimes they have a hard time seeing it too.
It can really help when someone else advocates for them and helps them pay attention to themselves too in the moment.
Bill
Yeah. So I was just talking with an Enneagram Nine, a Peacemaker who really illustrated what you’re saying there, Briana.
That it is so helpful for her when her boss at work recognizes her, affirms her, appreciates her, and advocates for her, that just really brightens her up, gives her energy, and helps her perform even better at work.
Briana
Yeah. It’s definitely true for me too.
So if any of you out there know a Nine, that’s the best way you can love them is to affirm them, pay attention to them, and don’t require them to constantly make it about you, but make it about them sometimes too.
Bill
Yeah. That’s a good principle really in all of our relationships and certainly in management.
If we’re managing a team of people in a ministry project or even within our own family, when we affirm people, appreciate people, when we are considerate of them, look out for them, and verbalize that, it really is motivating them.
You’re nodding Kristi.
Kristi
Well, I am.
I think that especially the Nines and also some Twos like me and other personalities, we can tend to hide.
So people can maybe tend to think that because we’re hiding, we don’t want to be seen or noticed or considered.
That’s not true. It’s that we sometimes just don’t have the confidence and we need somebody else to give us that confidence by coming towards us and validating us.
Bill
One of the ways I remind myself of this in my relationships with people is that it just goes back to the love languages concept.
I imagine our listeners are familiar with the love languages as a way of understanding people and how we relate to people.
We all have sort of a different language as to what most helps us feel loved. And one of those languages is appreciation.
So people like you, Kristi, and Briana are appreciative people and you’re affirming.
That’s a way that you will bless other people. And that reminds me that that’s what you need.
A principle that’s true in all of our relationships, is that what we’re good at naturally doing for other people to bless them, usually that’s what we need too.
You can just watch that in your relationships and turn it around for the person and do that for them.
Enneagram Nines in Relationship With the Lord
Kristi
So Briana, how about in your relationship with God? How has understanding the Enneagram helped you spiritually?
Briana
Yeah, well, I think again a big word with that is engagement.
The Enneagram has helped me see that I need to be better at actually actively engaging with God because it’s so easy for me to just kind of go along, get along and not necessarily draw myself out, or make myself known and take initiative.
The Enneagram has really helped me see the value and importance in doing that.
Just that very step of taking initiative and actually choosing to engage has really made a big difference in my relationship with God. It’s helped me feel closer to him.
It’s also helped me to recognize that he meets my needs.
So when I’m not feeling valued and seen or important by the people around me that I’m in relationship with, in my relationship with him he does recognize my importance and he does recognize my value.
So I get what I need from him and he gives me the strength that I need to then bring that to the world.
Kristi
That’s great.
I love what you’re saying there, because you’re saying that in your very area of need and vulnerability and tendency— maybe would you say your tendency would be to be all about God and not think about God caring for you, and you having needs that you could bring to God?
That the Enneagram has helped you to see that, no, you have a self that needs to receive from God too?
Briana
Yeah, definitely.
I think it’s been a temptation and easier for me in my life to not feel like I matter and to not feel like God even cares about my needs.
And instead to be advocating for the needs of other people, or what I think God needs from me.
So it’s been a big difference for me to see that there is room for me, there’s actually space for me to have needs, and that it’s okay to voice them.
That’s exactly what God wants for me to do, and he knows what they are anyways. So there’s no point in not mentioning the
Bill
I hear you talking about choosing to engage and just last night as a family, we were having conversation about the word for the New Year, the theme for the new year, and you picked the word choosing.
Briana
Yeah.
I don’t know that I want to have to pick it!
That’s what I was saying last night — I don’t know that it’s an exciting word for me or something that I feel really confident in kind of journeying through next year, but I think that personally in my own growth and development, that’s a really important thing for me to focus on.
Actually choosing things for myself rather than just going along with things for other people and just meeting their needs and caring about them and seeing things from their perspective.
To actually pay attention to what I want and what I need.
Even though I resist change and I resist difficult things, it’s important for me to make decisions that consciously engage with my needs and my wants.
I tend not to do that.
Kristi
Well, you are doing that today by saying yes, to choose to be Soul Talks with us, and we really appreciate that.
Bill
Well, you’re illustrating something that I think we all can relate to — you who are listening — whatever your personality type is.
The Enneagram is a great tool to help us with understanding our own self and our needs and our emotions and our weaknesses and shortcomings, and to make choices based on that awareness.
This is a Biblical teaching that runs throughout the Scriptures.
It’s not always well understood, but Jesus and the apostles are master psychologists here. The Lord understands people. God is our creator and Jesus as the Son of God is a wonderful counselor, and the apostles follow in that tradition.
The Scriptures are on the side of helping us understand what we feel and need and what we struggle with, and what our sins are, so that we can bring selves into the light and warmth of God’s love and grace.
We can learn and grow and become more like Jesus.
That’s really the great theme of the Enneagram, that deeper insight and understanding into ourselves.
So here you are articulating that Briana, how the Enneagram has helped you in that way.
Kristi
Briana, as we close this Soul Talk, would you be willing to offer a prayer for our listeners?
Briana
Yeah, absolutely.
Oh God, well first I just want to thank you for my parents and what a blessing they are to me and so many other people.
I just thank you for the ways that you’re using them.
I just ask that you’ll continue to bless them in their ministry.
For our listeners, God, I ask that you’ll just meet each of them.
If you’ll use the Enneagram in their journeys, I just ask that you’ll help them use it to further their relationship with you primarily, and secondarily to themselves and to other people around them.
I just ask that you’ll give them the gift to understand more deeply, and the courage to go deeper in the Enneagram with themselves and those around them.
Ultimately, God, we just ask that you’ll continue to reveal yourself to us.
That you’ll reveal your love for us, your grace for us.
That as we move into this New Year, you’ll just bless us and give us courage to make hard decisions and to have hard conversations.
That ultimately that we will see your love for us in that, and that you’ll give us a deeper ability to love one another as well.
We look to you and we love you so much.
In Jesus name,
Amen.
